Martin V. Saffer, Pocahontas County Commissioner
 
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Regards Mr. Saffer

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Etater
Jan 17, 2010
9:39 pm
Regards Mr. Saffer

Just wanted to let you that we have a proposal for you. http://ptater.com/index.php?topic=136.0 Please get back to us and let us know your answer. Respectfully, -Etater

Martin Saffer
Jan 18, 2010
7:57 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

The Commission meetings are broadcast live: www.pocahontascountycommission.com.
I am always happy to hear and discuss the issues facing the County. The more debate and discussion, the better and more acceptable the outcome. I don't think anyone disagrees about goals; everyone wants financial security, a healthy and cohesive community and an environment that will fruitfully sustain us and our future generations. The contentions arise about how to do this. If our discussions are to be worthwhile we must be careful not to attack personally and to "press buttons" not connected to the real issues.

RML
Jan 18, 2010
9:31 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

The Bible says we should judge a tree by its fruit. The fruits of a productive discussion are consensus and action. Discussion that does not produce consensus is like a fruit tree that doesn't produce fruit. Some communities have developed a very creative way to deal with 'hot button' issues. They form a citizens' advisory board. That board, which includes everyone who wants to be involved on the issue, is charged with producing a set of recommendations. And they keep meeting and discussing until they can agree on those recommendations.
Citizens' advisory board recommendations are then presented to the governing body -- in our case the County Commission -- for possible action.
Because the citizens' advisory board is open to all, and because its recommendations are not binding, no additional legislation is needed to create such boards. One advantage would be to harness the considerable talents of citizens who care enough to become involved on specific issues. Another is to produce consensus and action.
Perhaps the County Commission would consider creating a citizens' advisory board to address a particularly difficult issue facing the county. The more specific the issue, the better. The drug problem, future jobs or education are all important issues. If nothing else, an experiment with citizens' advisory boards would inject a healthy dose of democracy into our community and our discussions.
Rich Laska

Bill
Jan 18, 2010
10:10 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

I agree that an advisory board is a good idea. There is, however, a danger that I see with your proposal. Proposals made by individuals or groups very interested in a particular issue frequently don't reflect the general view of the public at large. For instance, damming the Greenbriar, Corridor H, Zoning in general. The list goes on and on. Rather than just listening to those who care (shout the loudest) enough to get involved in a particular issue The County Commission should periodically poll a representative cross section of Pocahontas County citizens to find out what a majority thinks. Every action The Commission takes affects everyone either directly or indirectly. A short telephone survey about an issue being discussed would do it.

Bill Minion

RML
Jan 19, 2010
9:10 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Bill,
For an advisory board to work, it must be open and include all interested parties. An advisory board is like a democracy. If people are not interested enough to participate, neither will work. In our form of government, citizens who do not care enough to participate in their own government give up their right to influence government decisions. Democracy won't work for the people unless the people work for their democracy.
As for polling citizens on particular issues, that will only work after there has been extensive and open debate. Opinions based on bias or ignorance are the enemy of the democratic process. Merely polling peoples' opinions is fine for American Idol, but it is no way to run America.
Rich

Bill
Jan 19, 2010
9:49 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Rich,

Bill
Jan 19, 2010
10:34 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Rich,
In a perfect world that's how democracy operates. There are a variety of legitamite reasons individuals don't get involved in issues that may be important to them. Maybe they're working 60 hours a week. Maybe their job requires them to be gone for days or weeks at a time. Historically poor and/or uneducated people don't participate in large numbers. Others feel alienated by politics. For whatever reason some citicen's interests might not be considered. The County Commission represents everyone in the county, not just the squeaky wheels. An advisory board could certainly provide valuable input to the Commission. In a population as small as Pocahontas County the Commission could easily identify groups they haven't heard much from. Also, if these groups discover the powers that be are listening to them they are likely to participate in larger numbers. Witness the Presidential election in '08.

Bill

Roger Sharp
Jan 19, 2010
11:32 am
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Rich
I am with Bill on this one.
All you need do is look at the PSD debacle.
The PSD was an appointed advisor group of concerned citizens
And look at the problems they caused.
The County Commission is the advisory group appointed by
the people of Pocahontas County to act on their behalf.
If that group doesn't function at the will of the people
then there are ways to address that vis a vie elections.

RML
Jan 19, 2010
1:49 pm
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Roger's comments about the PSD prove my point. PSD members were appointed. The PSD does not have open membership. A different PSD, one in which anyone who cares can be involved, and everyone can be heard, with consensus as its goal -- that would be a different creature altogether.
And a citizens' advisory board is a one-issue group. Once it has produced a set of recommendations, it goes out of business. If none of the recommendations are acceptable to the County Commission, the process can be repeated. And the County Commission is not an advisory group. It embodies both legislative and executive functions. And Comisssioners deserve a more responsive way of getting advice from citizens than holding an election every six years.
Bill -- your objection is a speed bump, not a roadblock. Citizens' advisory boards can and should be designed to accommodate anyone who wants to be involved. That's their job.
There are countless reasons why folks don't participate in their own government. None of them are valid. My dad worked 90 hours per week and served on our Town Council. I worked 60 hours a week and served on two citizens' advisory boards. The problem is neither time nor work. The problem is a lack of effective ways for citizens to make a difference. Advisory boards are one way to get citizens involved. If you have another idea to get more people to participate in their government, please share it.
When citizens do not participate, we do not have a government "of the people." Over the past half century, a bunch of ideologues has told Americans that their votes do not count and that they are not part of their own government. They've pretty much succeeded.
And the same extremists who have convinced Americans not to participate in their own government have the power to manipulate the electoral process with their money.
So long as Americans see the government as "them" and not "us" we abandon both the spirit and the power of the great visionaries who founded this nation. Not to mention our ability to influence our own destiny.
Rich Laska

Roger Sharp
Jan 19, 2010
2:56 pm
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

Rich
"Some communities have developed a very creative way to deal with 'hot button' issues. They form a citizens' advisory board."

The CC does not have to issue anything for this to happen and in fact it already does exist.
Back to the sewer issue. There was one group of citizens that came to a consensus that the sewer shouldn't be done as another group of citizens who got together and wanted it done as they planned.
If both those groups had met together to come to agreement before going to the CC nothing would have been proposed or done even now. The CC was responsible for the decision had to make that decision. They did based on the recommendations present by both groups. Where there are 2 or 3 gathered together there are more than likely 2 or 3 different consensus.
The citizens participated as designed by our democratcy. Only those people that were concerned showed up as you proposed in your advisory board. You are proposing to put an addition step in this process as there would still be concerned citizens at the CC meeting who could and would voice their opinions which would not necessarily be in line with the advisory board. So that gets you right back to the current system. If you are concerned participate. Even if you are the only person concerned with an issue you can petition the CC to put the issue on their agenda for consideration.
If you have a concern say more educational opportunities in Pocahontas and you know others that are interested in that you already have the right provided by the Constitution to meet freely. Make your findings, suggested actions and present them to the CC for action. I do not see why this needs to be a proposal to the CC. It already exists.
Don't get me wrong here. I appauld ALL efforts to participate. Get your 'advisory board' together and petition the CC to place you on the agenda. I bet they would be all ears.

been here
Jan 25, 2010
12:26 pm
Re: Regards Mr. Saffer

rich a lot of people are like me and have to work out of town.it's impossible for me to get off at 6:00 and drive 4 or 5 hours to get to a meeting at 7 or 8 o'clock. it would also be hard on some of the people in the county who has to drive an hour or so to work and gets off at 5 or 6 to have to drive another 45 min or an hour to get to meetings. people who are retired with nothing to do or people who own their business that could take off when they wanted to could be on a lot of boards.a few people could influence a lot of boards. because people aren't able to attend meetings doesn't mean they don't care. the consensus of most people is less gov. is better.

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